Kangaroo at Pyramids

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Hafiz
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Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by Hafiz »

A photograph taken of Australian Troops in December 1914 shows that soldiers bring their own pets and that the area around the pyramids offers big opportunities for tent based camping.

Just think of it. Instead of friends/relatives/mistress murderers/Mubarak’s building ugly hotels, thousands of tourists could instead camp next to the pyramids and this would probably create many more support jobs for average Egyptians – and those workers would be more likely to pay taxes and reside in Egypt than rich hotel owners like the Chaity’s. Maybe Butlins could re-emerge into this new development for the Stg30 per day UK tourists to Egypt? :)

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Other photos of their camping:

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Expectedly the Australian troops and nurses led an active and unconventional social and ‘private’ life in the Mena House area and in central Cairo, which was apparently ‘red-lighted’.

The Australian and New Zealand troops were involved in regular fights with their loathed British allies before the disastrous mismanagement by the British High Command of the Churchill inspired Gallipoli invasion of the Ottoman Empire.

The only good outcome of this disaster was the forced resignation of Churchill from the Cabinet for his ill-conceived and ill-managed campaign.

The historical coverage of the large involvement of Indian (and other colored colonials) troops in Egypt is both mysterious and under-reported as is the non-involvement in the war of Egyptian troops and the removal by the British of the ruling pro-Turkish/German khedive Abbas II and his replacement by a puppet successor, Hussein Kamel, who was then compelled to declare himself Sultan of Egypt independent of the Ottomans in December 1914. This made little sense because Egypt was then declared a Protectorate at the same time and in any case had often been previously colored pink on world maps along with the rest of the Empire.

At the same time somewhere between 500,000 and 1.5 million Egyptian civilians (out of a total male population of about c. 6 million and a male population 16 years to 35years of c. 3 million) were then forced to abandon their jobs and farms to provide support services and supply lines in the Saudi/Palestine/Syria campaign. But this has been poorly researched – including by Egyptians.

The Sultanate didn’t last for long and was replaced by a Kingdom in 1922 where the British retained control of foreign relations, communications, the Canal, the bureaucracy, the military, the police, the judiciary and the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan.

Apparently the World War 1 time compulsory purchase of Egyptian rations at less than market prices bankrupted Egypt and helped to stimulate the Wafd 1919 revolution to get the British kicked out to fulfill the declared Allied War Objectives of freedom and independence. The UK responded by imprisoning Egyptian democrats including Saad Zaghlul and preventing Egypt attending the post war peace conference – although the Saudi’s and others from the region were invited and got their kingdoms of Saudi, Syria and Iraq.

Whether debts to Egypt for Allied war-time acquisitions and services were ever repaid is unclear.

The non-military participation of Egypt in World War 2 continued the practice of preventing Egyptian participation in resisting its own invasion. It appears that no allied power in either war had much confidence in the Egyptian military or loyalty (the Egyptian 1940’s and 1950’s High Command was frequently pro-German and Sadat was regarded as a Axis spy).

On the other hand the compulsory purchase by the UK of Egyptian products during WW2 created a large debt but that was handled by refusing repayment after the war to Egypt until the UK found it convenient. That took quite a while and the repayment requirement had the prime objective of sustaining the British currency and requiring the purchase of UK products by Egypt. Egypt had wanted to convert the debt into dollars but the Bank of England refused to give them control over their debt assets. The same policy was applied to the debt the UK also owed to India...and to Australia. The USA did not approve of the UK approach. In fact in the 11 year lead up to the 1956 disaster the USA disapproved of most or all UK Imperial policies in the region which was critical in forcing the USA to attempt to bankrupt the UK if it went ahead with its 1956 UK/French/Israeli invasion. The Australian conservative government's pro-UK behavior in the 1956 Suez Crisis also showed poor judgement, dubious morality and an outdated view of Imperial/Western rights in the Middle East.


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Re: Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by newcastle »

With the Cairo suburbs now lapping the Giza plateau, I'm not sure there's anywhere left to stick a tent peg. You'd have to camp far to the west...with consequent issues regarding water and other facilities.

Or perhaps the necropolis tombs could be converted the chalets. Billy Butlin would definitely feel at home. An idea worth exploring now that Hawass is out of the picture.

The Sphinx could be uprooted and moved to the GEM.

Thanks for the history lesson on the iniquities of the British Empire (middle east volume)

Not my fault mate...I wasn't there.

Nor am I any more embarrassed about it than I am about the Peasants' Revolt of 1381.

I'm happy to leave the past in the past. After all most of them, particularly Egypt, have come on leaps and bounds since left to their own devices. You only have to look at the current state of democracy, scientific advancement and culture in the middle east region to see how better off they are. :urm:
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Re: Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by Horus »

Newcastle, you echo my sentiments exactly :a4:
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Re: Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by carrie »

I have photo's of my Aunt and Uncle who got married at the base of the pyramids, her in her white dress and bouquet him in his army uniform with pyramid backdrop. During the 2nd W.W.
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Re: Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by Dusak »

:tk I do not think that Egypt would allow anything camp.
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Re: Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by John Landon »

I have similar photo's that my Grandad sent to my mother during WW2. Along with a lot of Disney cartoon characters he would draw for her..

I loved the bit where he had to sign off his letters for security purposes as "Somewhere in Egypt"

I dont think that ze Germans were that thick as to wonder where in Egypt he was upon seeing the photos'... Who knows though ?
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Re: Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by Hafiz »

Fair point Newcastle.

My point is not about current moral responsibility but political context and memory. Previous problems, including those committed by Australia, make current relationships with Egypt no easier.

Its a simple point not an accusation against present Westerners.

For example selective bad public behavior in Cairo and Alex by Australian soldiers in two world wars is something still remembered by educated Egyptians - including expatriate Egyptians.

Arguably, the Middle East is a region where the current ruling classes have long and vivid memories of past problems and trying to do new deals often runs up against odd contemporary interpretations of something that happened generations ago.

Western politics and business in contrast seems more focused on contemporary events.

My argument about the persistence of the past in contemporary Egyptian culture is difficult to prove except with personal anecdotes but is consistent with my conversations with educated Egyptians. I accept that it may not be consistent with other's experiences of Egyptians.
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Re: Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by newcastle »

My argument about the persistence of the past in contemporary Egyptian culture is difficult to prove except with personal anecdotes but is consistent with my conversations with educated Egyptians. I accept that it may not be consistent with other's experiences of Egyptians.
I wouldn't disagree.

Although much of the population, and the ruling hierarchy, have only lived in post 1952 Egypt, I'm sure stories of the British "occupation" have been passed down...suitably embellished.

What troubles me about Egypt today is that the current regime do not seem to be taking on board the lessons of the Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak eras...the lessons being different in each case.

There is a limit to how much you can repress and degrade a society before it erupts. And, with modern communications, the time between eruptions is shortened.
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Re: Kangaroo at Pyramids

Post by Hafiz »

Newcastle: "the lessons of the Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak eras." are unexamined and undebated in Egypt.

Academic patronage ensures that only certain types of people get promoted and the government archive following 1956 is closed to all scholars. Political, bureaucratic and industry patronage probably achieves a similar result of agreement and lack of debate.

In the west a liberal middle class is seen as questioning and skilled. In Egypt they are invariably opportunistic and easily bought off/frightened. Professions such as the law and medicine seem easily bought off and co-opted.

There is another issue about personal responsibility which is hard to understand. In practical terms it seems to have the effect that failure doesn't bring any punishment/removal/replacement and this seems to apply to both private, public and professional employment as well as to policy settings. For example the mass infection in Hep. by government doctors seems to have led to no individual/group/institution/policy/bureaucracy being held responsible. As a result the current reinfections - particularly by those who receive blood transfusions or undergo dialysis treatment seem to indicate that even general medical practice, after 30 years, may have learnt less than you might think. Another example would be Toshka. Its lack of success doesn't seem to have affected similar new publicly funded initiatives - one of which is in Upper Egypt.

No TV, Radio, newspaper etc publications are critical or look at previous alleged mistakes. Even debate within Egyptology is discouraged and Egypt lacks any academic international standing in its own historical/archaeological study, has no university which has an even moderate rating in this area and does not publish any intellectual journal on this matter. Has no one noticed that there are no international conferences in Egypt which attract high status academics to debate Egyptology?

In addition its education system is almost the worst in the world and discourages the development of individual thinking, critical thinking and expression skills.

Government, university and upper middle class culture regards criticism much more negatively than in other countries and the notion of public debate on key issues is not regarded as productive - rather it is seen as dangerous or disruptive to certain entrenched interests.

There is a reason why Egyptian universities rate so badly, even when compared with Saudi, Lebanon and other similar places and why so many Egyptians with ambition go the US. Even the AUC has a spineless history in the area of rational debate, logic, evidence, international standing etc.

The conventional middle class Egyptian view of the lessons of the last 70 years is that everything is basically OK and evidence of relative and absolute decline is produced by enemies. Few accept that a couple generations ago Egypt was a regional leader and a major voice in international affairs/third world movement. Most continue to believe that the Cairo book fair/film festival is still a world leader. No one debates the positive economic development of China/India/Bangladesh/Indonesia over the last 50 years and draws any implications for how Egypt should head or how it has been left behind.

Its too easy to see the lack of analysis/debate as a Muslim issue. In fact the Copts are little better but are wise to get out in large numbers. Their allegations of a 10% population share are ridiculous - the best independent evidence (Pew) indicates its currently nearer to 5% and dropping via immigration.

A cynic would suggest that current arrangements have learnt a lesson. Tolerance and diversity (even the limited Mubarak versions) are a bad idea and strong central control is the best way to go - if you want to stay in control and continue the 70 year plan into its 8th decade.
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