Happy Birthday Howard!

[Winged Isis]

"For the moment - an eternity it must have seemed to others standing by - I was struck dumb with amazement, and when Lord Carnarvon unable to stand the suspense any longer, inquired anxiously, 'Can you see anything?' it was all I could do to get out the words, 'Yes, wonderful things.''

God bless you for your endeavours which enriched our world.

[Horus]

And how sad that there is no lasting memorial to him in the UK.

[newcastle]

And how sad that there is no lasting memorial to him in the UK.

It is a bit odd. Maybe this "omission" might be rectified when the centenary of his major discovery comes around.

Until then we have to be satisfied with the blue plaque at 19 Collingham Gardens SW5....an "honour" almost unique amongst egyptologists . (Flinders Petrie is the only other one I believe)

He's unlikely to be honored in Egypt which remains 'conflicted' over the involvement of western egyptologists in excavating its pharaonic history. The predominant narrative is that they were looters & robbers.....ignoring the fact that, without them, most of Egypt's temples and tombs would still be buried under metres of sand and archaeological tourism would be non-existent.

[Major Thom]

Where was he interred?

[newcastle]

Where was he interred?

Putney Vale cemetery.

[Major Thom]

so there is a form of lasting memorial to him in Putney Vale. Maybe if there is to be a larger memorial it should be in Luxor where he created interest from his discovery.

[Horus]

No there is not a lasting monument to him MT, that is simply the headstone on his grave. What we are saying is that there is no official monument in his honour in the UK, very remiss when you consider his world fame and see all the others that seem to spring up to all and sundry.

[newcastle]

No there is not a lasting monument to him MT, that is simply the headstone on his grave. What we are saying is that there is no official monument in his honour in the UK, very remiss when you consider his world fame and see all the others that seem to spring up to all and sundry.

Although I don't think the powers that be in Egypt would be interested in a statue, you have, of course, the Carter House museum and its collection of memorabilia (little of which is actually authentic). It's an interesting, and relaxing, spot....with only a few visitors each day.

[A-Four]

I think any one on here who is familiar with my early posts regarding MR Carter will appreciate there is certainly a lot more needs to come out about this man, even in the early 1990's there needed to be careful consideration for the delicate public consumption. It would have been wrong even then, when a biography by the late, but great Harry James was published to acknowledge the deception and theft carried out by Mr Carter.

In November 1992 the British Museum put on a temporary exhibition called Howard Carter: Before Tutankhmoun, much of the work carried out to put this together was done by John Taylor, and a rather young Nick Reeves, ( who actually left the BM before the exhibition opened). Harry James, although retired from the BM, wrote the biography as a sort of accompaniment to the exhibition. Although his book gained far more fame than stated exhibition, it was seen as a 'let's not upset the apple cart'.

Flinders Petrie was Knighted in 1923, E.A.Wallis Budge (a bit of a crook himself, but at least he handed a very important stolen item from Egypt, to the BM,.....and not to the highest bidder.) was knighted in 1920. The brilliant archeologyist Leonard Woolley (of The Ram in the Thicket fame, or more popular as The Golden Goat of Ur) was knighted in 1935, after a life's work in 'the field'.

What was quite remarkable about the BM exhibition back in 1992, was that a certain item of the gold glitz variety, had a label below the item within a glass cabinet that read,......On loan from a Japanese collector. Within three days of the opening on 19th November 1992, the item was removed, and no answers to questions given. Incidently, that was the last time any item in the BM was labelled as such, now full details are given either from another museum or institution.

Today, it would be fantastic , after all those years he was in Egypt, to now see a room in a museum, whether in London or New York with a name over the door reading Sir Howard Carter collection., are some of you still wondering why this is not so ?

[newcastle]

Today, it would be fantastic , after all those years he was in Egypt, to now see a room in a museum, whether in London or New York with a name over the door reading Sir Howard Carter collection., are some of you still wondering why this is not so ?

Apart from any doubts the "establishment" might have had over his worthiness for the honour of a knighthood, the fact that he is deceased precludes this.

Knighthoods cannot be awarded to the dead.

[newcastle]

No there is not a lasting monument to him MT, that is simply the headstone on his grave. What we are saying is that there is no official monument in his honour in the UK, very remiss when you consider his world fame and see all the others that seem to spring up to all and sundry.

His grave was much neglected until 1992, the year of the BM exhibition mentioned by A-Four. The headstone was barely legible

Possibly stirred by the likes of Paul Bahr and Donald Ryan, the BM participated in funding a refurbishment and it's in a much better state nowadays.

[Horus]

the fact that he is deceased precludes this. Knighthoods cannot be awarded to the dead.

And of course they cease with death, so it always amuses me when calls are made to remove someones knighthood as in the case of Jimmy Saville.

[A-Four]

Today, it would be fantastic , after all those years he was in Egypt, to now see a room in a museum, whether in London or New York with a name over the door reading Sir Howard Carter collection., are some of you still wondering why this is not so ?

Evidently I have not made my point in this matter clear. Up until the discovery of the tomb of Tutankhamoun Carter's main occupation in Luxor was as a dealer in the buying and selling of antiquities. Many remarkable pieces went through his hands, and in most cases he sold only to the highest bidder. J.P.Morgan, who almost single handledly build up the Metropolitan Museum in New York was a favourite customer of Mr Carter.

Carter did not give a hoot for Egyptology, for such a subject has no money value and
with all the things that went through his hands, it would have been wonderful for him to have contributed to a collection given by him to a museum. Who knows what would have happened had he done this,...........perhaps yes today they might have been known as The Sir Howard Carter Collection,........and yes, perhaps he may have been forgiven for dealing, and remembered first for a major collection in a museum, and a lifes long work, and secondly for the discovery of Tutankhamoun at a later date. Had this been so, then I do believe he would have been knighted in the 1920's, like similar such people I have mentioned from similar humble backgrounds,............but then again Carter was no archeologyist .

[newcastle]

Carter did not give a hoot for Egyptology,.......but then again Carter was no archeologyist (sic)

A somewhat unfair appraisal of a man who :

- worked under Percy Newberry, in the excavation and recording of Middle Kingdom tombs at Beni Hasan.

- worked under the tutelage of Flinders Petrie for at Amarna, .

- worked with Édouard Naville at Deir el-Bahari, where he recorded the wall reliefs in the temple of Hatshepsut.

- was appointed to the position of Chief Inspector of the Egyptian Antiquities Service (EAS). and supervised a number of excavations at Thebes

= was transferred to the Inspectorate of Lower Egypt. where he was praised for his improvements in the protection of, and accessibility to, existing excavation sites, and his development of a grid-block system for searching for tombs. The Antiquities Service also provided funding for Carter to head his own excavation projects.

Carter resigned from the Antiquities Service in 1905 after a formal inquiry into what became known as the Saqqara Affair, a noisy confrontation between Egyptian site guards and a group of French tourists. Following that debacle he had little choice but to engage in antiquities dealing in order to survive!

Gaston Maspero had recommended Carter to Carnarvon as he knew he would apply modern archaeological methods and systems of recording.

Hardly a description of a man ignorant of egyptology and motivated solely by money.

He never had the means to accumulate his own collection of artifacts and bequeath them to a museum.

The absence of any formal recognition, via a knighthood, is probably more to do with the snobbery (he was "in trade" don't ya know!) prevalent at the time, Carter's lack of of "connections" and his ability to rub people up the wrong way. You can get a knighthood nowadays for virtually anything.

Wallis Budge, who moved in higher circles, and was associated with the BM, was a more obvious candidate....despite being an out-and-out crook.

Stories of Carter being a thief emerge with depressing regularity....despite there being no proof that he was ever dishonest or had away with some of Tutankhamun's treasure. He was somewhat economical with the truth in accurately reporting facts (for example his date of birth in Who's Who)....not to mention the notorious "Yes...wonderful things"...but I think we can allow this (albeit imperfect) character a little leeway

[Horus]

Summed up quite nicely, what do you need to do to be described as an Egyptologist? By applying the same criticisms handed out to Carter to others, then many of histories and today’s more famous TV faces faces would not qualify on that count.

[Winged Isis]

Despite his wide knowledge and experience, he had no academic qualifications, especially in Egyptology, and always felt inferior for the lack.

[newcastle]

Despite his wide knowledge and experience, he had no academic qualifications, especially in Egyptology, and always felt inferior for the lack.

Indeed he didn't....which is may be the reason why he was overlooked for academic honours. And without patronage from academia it's unlikely that his name would have been but forward for national honours.

I recall he received some minor honours from abroad (including Egypt) but nothing from his homeland

[A-Four]

Summed up quite nicely, what do you need to do to be described as an Egyptologist? By applying the same criticisms handed out to Carter to others, then many of histories and today’s more famous TV faces faces would not qualify on that count.

Horus makes a fantastic statement here, that many people of the modern age have questioned. Those who have witnessed the 'voice' of Howard Carter during there visit to Carter House would think he has the voice of the present day Prince Michael of Kent. All this is false like much of what we know today of The man Carter.

There is much that in general we do not know of this very private man. Within the next few days I shall try to give a true idea of this person from when he first arrived in Egypt at around the age of 17 years old to his final days in Egypt. For those who have lived in Luxor, and those who remain today, especially those that live on the West Bank should, even now recognise and understand the feelings of Carter, way back in the 1900's through to the 20's and 30's.q

[Winged Isis]

It was well known that Carter studied and copied the behaviour, clothes, manners, behaviour and speech of his 'betters', especially of Carnarvon, as he was very aware of his humble beginnings, and altered his accent to nothing like that of his home county. After the discovery, he was mixing in the most exalted of circles and did not want to stand out.

[newcastle]

Here's a recording of the actual voice of Howard Carter.....typically 'plummy' accent of the time.

phpBB [video]

Although Carter spent his early years in Norfolk, one wouldn't necessarily expect him to have a broad Norfolk accent....anymore than I, born and raised on Tyneside , have a 'geordie' accent Much depends on your family, and later influences.

As WI says, Carter's complex about his humble origins no doubt influenced a mimicry (probably subconscious) of the accents of the classes amongst which he moved.

Interestingly, Sir Alan Gardiner describes him as "little short of a genius" in the field of excavation....but then what would he know.

The above clip reminded me of the 2005 BBC docu/drama "The Search for Tutankhamun" which I append for anyone who hasn't seen it.

phpBB [video]