Luxor4u

I went passed the old Sindbads garden yesterday, which I've not done in a while and noticed that it had been shut down and the entrance boarded up. The Luxor Hotel behind has had its shutters removed. Please tell me they are refurbishing it and not knocking it down Sorry if this has been discussed already.I seem to remember pre-revolution that it has been purchased by a hotel chain.

Sindbad's has been closed for quite a while, don't think they had any business when they stopped serving alcohol. The hotel behind Hamiss was being done up but that seems to have come to a grinding halt too. Who knows what is happening!

One can still obtain drinks from Hamis (coptics) next door to Sindbads, he got religion & the law, but he still hangs out around.
The Luxor Hotel was quite an institution similar to The Savoy & Winter Palace, nothing is or will happen to it....
It can be widely viewed in BBC's https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0483603/?r ... lmg_act_16

If I remember correctly the old Luxor Hotel was purchased by Rocco Forte, and work came to an abrupt stop following the last Revolution. It may well have been purchased back by the security forces to add to the Property Folio.

Who2 won't like this.

Something I researched a while ago which deals in passing with Rocco Forte, the Luxor Hotel and other Forte proposals in Egypt which have all blown up - and I suspect not because of 2011. Mainly its a part story of the mess that is government ownership of hotels in Egypt.

Tourism is Important to Egypt.

If that were true things would be different.

EGOTH/HOTAC (the government holding company for more than a score of seized hotels including the Cecil, Winter Palace and Cataract) owns Shepheard’s in Cairo and had a falling out with Helnan a Danish hotel management firm in 2009 and ended up in arbitration on another hotel they own and Helnan managed. Following this they got rid of Helnan/Helnan went home and then HOTAC did a three ringed circus contract signing performance with Rocco Forte’s butler to announce a new bright future for the hotel – and a full renovation. http://investmentpolicyhub.unctad.org/I ... artyRole=2

Wena Hotels and others have also fought it out with EGOTH in international arbitration – and always win even when HOTAC use thugs, violence, intimidation and the threat of worse. https://www.italaw.com/cases/1162

Nothing has happened since. The hotel has been closed for nearly 5 years and Forte has made his future intentions reasonably clear – nothing in Egypt. The Supreme Hoteliers can’t even be bothered to update their website which currently says the hotel re-opened 3 years ago. It’s a sign of their tourist/marketing skills that they forget to do this.

How they focus on any one thing is not clear because they own a chain of stores, an underpants manufacturing company, cinemas, the light shows at Giza and Luxor, MISR travel, their agricultural businesses and car retail ones and dozens of businesses as a minority shareholder – with the majority shareholder always being connected persons.

Forte is no fool or scattered thinker and he also pulled out of the EGOTH owned 82 room Luxor Hotel proposal and other ‘deals’ in Egypt. This is what the Luxor Hotel looked like a few years ago and I assume that continued EGOTH management has all but destroyed it – well done. One assumes that most of the mature trees and plants in the large garden are now well dead from care.



At the moment there is no one interested in it so it will only get worse and more likely bulldozed.

Meanwhile Forte is opening a new medium sized luxury hotel in Jeddah – not the 1,000 room model Egypt loves. https://www.thecaterer.com/articles/494 ... y-business. He is also opening in Morocco and other places in the region.

Maybe EGOTH could propose to Forte a new initiative for the coast – 50,000 caravans and 5,000 Butlins wading pools and swings.

With Shepheard’s abandoned, the Luxor falling down, the old Continental owned by EGOTH in Cairo near ‘opera’ square has been derelict for decades, pillaged and every day its demolition becomes more inevitable. Its like not resoling your shoes for 20 years – or even 5. The end becomes inevitable because you never did your job.

In 2016 it looked something like this:


Here is a 2017 photo for the tourist Brochures:


The public Park in front of it has ceased to be public with 3/4rs of it given over to storage of something – surely a better purpose and part of the beatification of 19th century downtown Cairo before it falls down/after it falls down.

A local journalist with a savage view of EGOTH and their mismanagement of the Continental. https://www.thenational.ae/business/pat ... et-1.73964

A very recent article saying they are going to demolish it and build shops and a 250 room hotel – in a part of town where only a fool would build a new hotel because its not even a useful location for business travellers and the new Imperial Capital and GEM will switch human movement hugely and unpredictably. https://www.albawaba.com/business/cairo ... ion-753676

They also own the Cosmopolitan Hotel built around 1900 and near Talat Harb Square. It was run as a 3 star hotel which must be a fine example of HOTAC’s judgment – why run a centrally located period designed hotel at 3 stars. I think there have been cat fights with western managers (Swiss or French but not certain) following which its been closed for quite a few years for a renovation that may not have started. What I remember was a period when it was under EGOTH direct management. It was putrid with cigarette smell, and I smoke, and full of sleazy businessmen from the region who seemed interested in only one thing.

Here is the exterior which has some charm. The furniture and rooms were designed by Cairo ‘professionals’ and therefore tasteless and not very functional.



Mena House is one of theirs and about 8 years ago they had a brawl with the long term Indian Hotel Management company that specializes in 5 star historic hotels Oberoi, (HOTAC had previously had a brawl with the same company over their management of the ‘Elephantine Hotel’ which led to deep unpleasantness and the eviction of Oberoi) following which the EGOTH idiots tried to run the hotel themselves for 18 months, failed, and then flogged it at short notice to Marriot as lessees following which it was closed in part or whole for another renovation.

They also have 1, possibly 2 modern style hotels on Zamalek or in Giza which are falling down. The Swiss Hotel in Luxor behind the Winter Palace – closed and derelict for ages – is also their’s.

They really know what they are doing, even if no one else does.

Essentially they sit on, I mean sit on, assets seized from ‘foreigners’ by Nasser in the 50’s (compensation still not paid in all cases) and have not done much on the coast or Sinai and, as far as I can work out, are not involved in the New Imperial Capital. The Armed Forces of Egypt, using the taxpayers money and free conscript laborers, are expanding their huge hotel holdings with a new 5/6 star hotel in Sisi-city. Here are some views which will surprise only a few.





I think the swans are vomiting.

Here is a tasteful object in the hotel ‘garden’ like something out of Doctor Who, or is it Darth Vader. Does anyone think the palm trees survived their gardeners/army conscript slaves



A strident local article on the hotel and Sisi city – a la Marie Antoinette. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/egyp ... 1705208428

This palace in Alex on the waterfront is very, very oddly owned by the Government’s Hotel organization (that lets its properties collapse if they are not leased to international hotel chains) Vacant for70 years its now for the bulldozer to be replaced with a 10,000 bed hotel
http://egoth.com.eg/en/aziza-fahmi-pala ... -situation. The Government’s documentation to attract investors is incoherent and doesn’t add up. It follows the standard Egyptian lines – if its pretty and on the beach cram it with awful high rise and concrete plazas.



Their corporate structure is so confused/devious/chaotic it exhausts me. Here is one example of an historical hotel casino they own adjacent to the Montazah Palace via the Montazah Company for Tourism and Investment Chairman is Major General -Ahmed El Makhzangi whose relevant knowledge is apparent to all – el Samalek Hotel and Casino – allegedly 5 star and a former royal hunting lodge. Its not much of a hotel with only 20 rooms so you wonder whether the Supreme Hoteliers or the Major General have a clue. At first sight it has charm.



Reviews are 3/5 but all, a very short number, are locals so I don’t believe a word. My suspicion is that it operates as a publically funded private club for insiders – probably in uniform.

A more recent and accurate picture of it is this so it was let run down:


Here the story gets bizarre. A few years ago the Supreme Antiques, skilled in hotel management, took charge of it and decided to redevelop the hotel and casino consistent with their role and objectives. Where they got the money for this and the property development skills god knows but who will manage it is clear – an insider. They set the targets so it should have reopened on 1 November 2018. What’s the betting it will be a couple of years late and a couple of times over budget. https://egyptindependent.com/antiquitie ... ek-palace/

So its owned by HOTEC via a subsidiary they own which is headed by a general who has leased (?) it to archaeologists who will then sub-lease it to a hotel management company after the archaeologists have contracted a builder to redevelop it (on what lines and using what knowledge for how a hotel/casino/kitchen/function area should work I leave to you). Don’t the antiques have higher priorities like opening the Greco-Roman museum that’s been closed for renovations for 9 years, the preservation of the crumbling, dirty Greek ruins and undertaking some digging in the city for the first time in 70 years?

Does it ever cross the Supreme Antiques minds that they might try to preserve some of the better 19th century buildings in Alex? This hotel venture is another off agenda waste of time and money in a country where no bureaucrats can stay on message or deal with screaming priorities for more than a second.

Thank You I actually enjoyed reading that, quite informative....

I suppose Forte are right really, no one spends money to make a loss. Knowing the tourist situation in Luxor I am really surprised that 50% of the Hotels are still standing. Mind you on saying that many belong to chains and chains do like a bit of a loss maker for tax purposes. I dod not know but gather the majority of the hotels are working on skeleton staff just to turn over and to be honest all these promised flights and things to Luxor are only a figment of the travel companies minds. They are testing the waters to see if they can sell seats, they all know it is easy to pull the rug from under their ideas. A shame really because we remember Luxor in it's former tourist glory. Unfortunately its gone from Thebes to Luxor to Tombstone. Such a pity! But imagine its still ok for you residence, or should I say tourists that live there, willing to spend hundreds every year on flights and visa's. I suppose though that what you save on the cheap, substandard goods and rubbish, your pensions and tax top up more than pays for your yearly flights.

I've seen it all before, as have most really long term visitors to Luxor. Tourism is like a tide flowing in and out, moved not only by politics of nations but politics of international capital investment and not least by fashion.

I remember when most hotels were shut, the Etap had 8 people staying and the Novotel two. Yet very soon after I flew in from Cairo to see a solid chain of caleches from Karnak to the end of the corniche. Hotels were overbooked and some of the hundreds of cruise boats were opened to take the overflow. I think the Winter Palace was about 25% overbooked - it was mind blowing.

Strangely when there are less visitors they are also much bigger spenders and more appreciative in general of their surroundings.

Please, MT don't judge others by your own standards. It is not anyone else's business why people live in Luxor. If they wanted to live in a warm place of "higher" standards with EU benefits they could move to somewhere which has welcomed many thousands and is pretty stable and not too fussy about incomers - Spain or even Cyprus.

MT wrote "I suppose Forte are right really, no one spends money to make a loss. Knowing the tourist situation in Luxor I am really surprised that 50% of the Hotels are still standing. Mind you on saying that many belong to chains and chains do like a bit of a loss maker for tax purposes. I dod not know but gather the majority of the hotels are working on skeleton staff just to turn over and to be honest all these promised flights and things to Luxor are only a figment of the travel companies minds."

Totally wrong MT, at least where the West Bank hotels are concerned. I have no idea what its like for the luxury hotels on the other side, but all the hotels on the West Bank have got really good bookings right up until summer, with numbers almost up to what they were before the Revolution.

Well since all the hotels in Luxor are just ticking over and working with a skeleton staff because of lack of guests I would love to know where all the tourists here are staying.Perhaps all those I saw at the Winter Palace swimming pool yesterday are just on day trips from Hurghada.As for us "long term tourists" most live here because we love the place by the way what happened to your plan to move to Aussy MT couldn't afford it?

Shhhh! Carrie don't embarrass the poor man. There are other options, maybe he didn't qualify, maybe he could afford it.

That' s right Carrie, there were a few things that came into force really, first the GBP against the Aussie Dollar, secondly the price of property, property almost doubled in price from when we set off with our plans, my daughters property went from 580,000AD to over 1,000,000AD, in the Cairns area, the property in Luxor was a mish mash of what you could get for it!!! Medical insurances went up almost double, being not of retirement age I needed Insurance, there was no agreement regarding S1 issue between the UK and Oz, and finally State Pensions were like Luxor when it came to rises each year, they were frozen. I have been under the hospital here now for 18 months, being treated for something the Luxor Medical system could not diagnose or treat, so have not had to drop my hat and fly back to Britain for free treatment at tax payers expense because I am covered here. So there you are make of it what you want! There was one thing for certain, I had NO address to use in the UK for anything whatsoever, before moving I informed the Tax People and Medical Authorities of our move, and every other Government Dept. that needed to know. There was no way I was going to be found out or called a sponger on the UK System when I did not live there, and certainly no way was I going to make out I lived at a relatives address or my old rented property, when I didn't. My next thing is a hip replacement so although not looking forward to it, now being of retirement age in Cyprus is free like all other retired people here. I can earn here 17500 Euros before paying tax, in the UK around 12000, the difference here is that over 17500 I am only taxed at 5% and not the UK rate. I don't have to fly out on a visa run because our residence papers last 10 years, British people are trusted here and not looked upon as spies or information gathers, so you don't have to look around anywhere to see if someone is listening in, and you certainly do not have to talk to friends from behind you hand, there is freedom of speech here without the fear of prison, beating or murder. So it all adds up to a peaceful happy financially secure retirement.
If you would like any more information please feel free to ask. I am always willing to tell.

'Fools rush in where angels fear to tread' comes to my mind....

What makes you feel so special MT, I know lots of people here myself included who informed the authorities in the UK that they lived here. I do have a home in the UK simply as a backstop in case I ever have to return which' my children use for holidays occasionally being near the sea. It is not registered as my address with either my government pensions office or my private company pension. Don't judge everyone by your friends here in Luxor people no doubt I wouldn't want to know.

I have acquaintances in Luxor Carrie, friends we have in Luxor we are fortunate to be able to count on one hand. I did not think you were of state pension age yet and able to claim your state pension, you obviously look younger than you are, there would be no need to advise the pensions office until you retire, in the same way as myself. When Lynne was in the UK recently and following an accident in which she broke both collar bones and had to attend hospital for treatment, she was covered by the S1 system even though we both come under the Cypriot Medical System, all she had to do was produce her Passport and all was ok. Not sure yet how or if things will change when we leave the EU. what we do know is that State Pensions will not change! So a bit of a blessing in disguise, nor will the yearly increases stop. The only people that will be effected are those that served in the British Military and those who receive a Pension from the Government Dept or Military, because the Government will tax these pensions at source from 2019. Because of our Registration here and because we are Cypriot Tax payers and because we have both now turned 65 our medical entitlement stand and will not be effected by Brexit. We also will be after our passports run out applying for European Passports. So we will not be really effected by Brexit in the same way people in Luxor will not. The only difference will be increases and bonuses which the people in Luxor cannot claim, unless they are doing what I said in a previous post.

So to end this, we did not go to Oz for the reasons I gave which would be totally acceptable to most, and we did not go back to the UK because we like warm weather. You may not believe this but apart from Utility bills it is now cheaper to live in the UK than here. So you will need a really good pension for anyone wanting to came and live here. However the advantages far out way the costs.
Our application for Oz is still live and can be resurrected easily if we wanted, but there would have to be a lot of changes made before we would even consider it. So WI you will be safe for many years to come

Our intent to stay her has gone even further, last week we chose our plots in the local graveyard and paid for them, and also prepaid our funerals. So our intent for our future here is 100%

We started to realise our mistake after just a few month in Luxor, we have now been here 2 years and are absolutely, 100% committed to spending our final days here. We both love the efficiency of the departments we have to use, and the commitment to keep the Island free form crime and crimes against the people. We love how people are committed to keeping their homes clean and tidy and with lovely gardens full of year long blooms. The nightlife is exceptional even for people of our age, so you can read between the line and know we are settled. I have to admit though we had been checking the Island out for a couple of years previous when we saw how costs were soaring in Oz and with the help of a school friend who has lived here 20 years now, we were not really fools rushing in has the Dr puts it, just people wanting freedom of life, freedom of speech and freedom and access to what all Pensioners should be entitled to. That's all really, not too much to ask at our ages....

MT Where on the island do you live? The Turkish side or the Greek side? I would imagine living on the Turkish side would be a lot cheaper.

crewmeal wrote:MT Where on the island do you live? The Turkish side or the Greek side? I would imagine living on the Turkish side would be a lot cheaper.

And nicer! Much more beautiful, and though busy in summer still civilised, unlike some of the resorts in the south!

Why you have not moved to the Australia MT has nothing to do with me or anyone else for that matter I accept your explanation though. Why then these constant slurs against those who love to live here why cant you accept our explanations that it has nothing to do with the cost of living,or cheating the authorities in the UK,we live here just because we like the people the way of life. You didn't like either. I hated Cyprus when I visited but that's me not everyone is the same accept the differences MT and STOP keep having a go.
Your life here was a failure we all know that by now, forget and move on you are somewhere now where you are happy and I am very glad for that now be happy for us who love to live here.
I stayed in Turkey for three months in Summer, a beautiful place with everything I could wish for. Beautiful beaches, fantastic supermarkets, restaurants out of this world, the history and historical sights without number the cost of living very reasonable. Yildez loves it there and would no longer live here than on the moon but this place draws me back I miss it when I am not here I just love living here.

MT - Ouch your wife broke both collar bones - very nasty. She has my greatest sympathy and I hope that she makes a speedy recovery.

Thanks MD, she was walking out with her Uncle who lives in Beckinham when he tripped on a broken paving slab, he pulled Lynne down and then landed on top of her. She has had a lot of pain, but is now braced up using a figure 8 brace, and on regular medication for the pain. Her main thing at the moment is she is frustrated that she cannot drive until the New Year.


Carrie I just find it hard when people have lived in a civilised world why they would want to live in what is fast becoming the biggest S---holes in the World, that offers no future and always suspecting Western World people of treachery, not everyone likes Cyprus, we have met a few that hate the place because of the cost, but to use it has opened up a new world of adventure, things to do and places to go, you know what happened to Lynne and it was my job to get her out of the place where she could fell safe again. After that happened we both became prisoners in our own home, and lived under a threat of what the offenders family might do, after numerous threats. When nothing like this happens to people I suppose they will love it, but the possibility of it happening to any European Woman is live and kicking.

Don't forget also we lived in Luxor before it became a ghost town and was buzzing, even we loved it then. When I became ill and no one seemed to get to the bottom of it, I wanted a safer place where I could get proper checks and medical attention. It took 2 weeks for the Medical World to know what was going on, Luxor had been trying 3 years!! Gradually I am getting much better and now only have to wait for my Hip Op.

We are still in regular touch with our friends that live on both the East and West Bank so they tell us of anything that happens, that's how we know the tourist industry is still flat and not growing very much at all. We watch all the lies spun on Nilesat TV too, especially on a Friday night. But I suppose I cannot live another's life, we made a big mistake but it only took 4 years to realise and a further 4 years to rid the place to a more cosmopolitan life, like Luxor used to enjoy 10 years ago. So I will lay off making remarks because it obviously upsets the tourists that have made Luxor their home. I will just say one last thing though we both know of many that have chosen to live a life away from Luxor and they all agree with us. THE END... YOU WILL ALL BE PLEASED!!