Who do you want fighting for you on a battlefield?

[hatusu]

"The Army needs 'laddish culture' because its soldiers need to be 'good at winning on battlefields', says armed forces head General Sir Nick Carter. The General came under fire after giving evidence to Commons Defence Committee
He said he has never personally referred to himself as a he/him and that it was difficult to be a public figure in the world of modern media"


The General has made the enormous mistake of trying to use common sense in the defence of the realm. Personally speaking, and I realise plenty will want to shoot me down, but when it comes to protecting me and my country I want a load of hard b*stards up front, not some woke him/her/cant decide who gets upset and has a hissyfit when referred to by the wrong pronoun.
PS I hasten to add that I dont have the same prejudices in civilian life, thats totally different.

[newcastle]

Without listening to all of Sir Nick Carter’s comments I’m not sure how to take encouragement of “ laddish behaviour”. What does one mean by “ laddish behaviour “?

I gather the remarks arose during the discussion of attitudes to women serving in the forces, many of whom have reported being routinely harassed or even assaulted. I can’t imagine Sir Nick Carter intended to condone such behaviour....but his remarks could be taken as an attempt to belittle the seriousness of the situation.

It reminds me of racial comments in cricketing circles being dismissed as “ banter” or crude sexual comments by men about women being dismissed as “ locker room talk”.

Of course we don’t want the soldiery to be namby-pamby and overly politically correct .....but nor do we want an army of brutish thickos who may have some deep seated belief that their females colleagues are, in some way, inadequate and inferior. Such beliefs would easily translate into a soldier who regards rape as a legitimate tactic of war.

I don’t think it’s too much to expect our soldiery to be tough....and yet still be respectful of the norms of behaviour which we all should adopt with respect to women....or indeed, anybody.

[Who2]

The truth about Wellington:
“I don’t mean to say that there is no difference in the composition or therefore the feeling of the French army and ours. The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the Earth—the mere scum of the Earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterward. The English soldiers are fellows who have enlisted for drink—that is the plain fact—they have all enlisted for drink.”

This pic is of Her Maj's forces my 'scummy mates, Nick & Steve,
Falklands, Belfast, Sarajevo, Irac, South America, Wales.

Nick Navy. has a multitude of fascinating and very funny stories, Steve Army. well he's in other realm, licensed to kill,
tea swigging, HALO loving freak.
And far far more stable/normal/well-adjusted than Nick.mind you, Steve: = 5 wives...Nick: = None.

You need 'nutters to go and kill people, well trained nutters..........


Ps: American soldiers were issued with cocaine pills British with 'speed...
Dad was RAMC and used to issue them he told me once...

Pss: Started the Mulled Wine today, I keep it going till new year...

[Teddyboy]

Initially, I thought, "Not women!" This was because of my experience of seeing female police officers cowering in the doorways of Newcastle Central Station while their male colleagues tried to keep them safe from the marauding hordes of football fans, whom they were having to deal with after their team were badly beaten and they'd just come off a 3 hour train journey, full of drink and bitterness.
Being a reactionary old fart, I also believe that females (naturally) have more of a nurturing role than one of killing in cold blood! Of course this is purely generalising, many menfolk are also completely unsuited to battlefield heroics too. (Me, for one!) And, I'm perfectly sure that there are women who wold be much better in the battlefield than blokes like me!
I suppose that every generation looks upon the next (generalising again) as being softheaded and an easy pushover, but I really think that the current lot actually are. Is this because 'equal' women are spoiling them in order to compensate for farming them out to childminders and socialist re-education establishments? Wokeism seems to be rife in our current education system and its products. (I don't believe for one minute that women have EVER been less than equal to men. But they are, undeniably, different; and are quite obviously made with different roles in mind.)
Fortunately, major battlefields will soon become a thing of the past anyway, with fighting men (or women?) just sitting in offices 9 till 5, obliterating the enemy at the touch of a button. The biggest problem I foresee in such a scenario, is that we do away with actual battlefields only to bring the battle to our front doors and our families, as our enemies will also have the same sort of capabilities!
B******d whichever way!
And what's all this about 'men killing women' that the papers are full of recently? I'm positive that men kill more men than they kill women, so who's shouting out for male victims?

[newcastle]

I think we’re in danger of straying away from the OP’s question....whether “laddism” is necessary, or excusable, in the armed forces.

In reality, women make up only 10% or so (it varies, naturally, between the services) and of these only a small proportion opt for close combat roles. It’s only recently that they were admitted to active combat positions. I won’t speculate on the type of women who relish such roles...but I’m not sure I’d want to be married to one

So, I doubt the presence of women in the armed forces really represents much of a problem for their male compatriots....or any significant weakening of the shield our armed forces represents.

Do we want to be protected by neanderthal misogynists? Personally....no thanks.

But, as Teddyboy points out, the individual characteristics of individual armed forces personnel is increasingly irrelevant if push comes to shove ...with drones doing most of the killing.

Increasingly, it appears our armed forces are more involved in filling in the gaps In services created by government cockups....and women are probably as good as men when it comes to driving ambulances or HGVs!

And what's all this about 'men killing women' that the papers are full of recently? I'm positive that men kill more men than they kill women, so who's shouting out for male victims?

I’m not sure what Teddyboy’s point is here. 9 out of 10 murderers in the UK are men. ....and 30% of their victims are women. Why not 50%? Simply because murders are not ( by and large) random...but the result of fights and robberies where the victims are predominantly male. There’s not much doubt as to which gender is the more dangerous in our species!

[Teddyboy]

"I’m not sure what Teddyboy’s point is here."

Sorry, but I have a bee in my bonnet lately about 'wimin's' groups crying on that 'wimin' need to be protected from men. Of course they do, and so does everyone else! What next, 'Wimin's Lives Matter'?
What nonsense! It's akin to calling for the death penalty for those who kill police officers. Why are their lives deemed to be more worthy of the ultimate punishment?
But to get back to the OP..........
I would imagine that the best ordinary foot soldiers would normally be drawn from the least educated level of any society. It is likely that (after a good deal of drilling and training) they might be the most willing to follow orders to ride 'into the valley of death' without question. That young men of that type would be the most likely to have those 'qualities' amongst others (like camaraderie), is a sad fact.

[newcastle]

I would imagine that the best ordinary foot soldiers would normally be drawn from the least educated level of any society. It is likely that (after a good deal of drilling and training) they might be the most willing to follow orders to ride 'into the valley of death' without question. That young men of that type would be the most likely to have those 'qualities' amongst others (like camaraderie), is a sad fact.

A fair point. It was certainly the case in the past. I think there’s less excuse for it now.

The police force has the same issue....albeit manifesting itself in racism. I’m naturally suspicious of anyone who derives satisfaction in ordering a fellow citizen about. I can’t help feeling that the job tends to attract a certain ‘type’.....if you know what I mean.

Sorry, but I have a bee in my bonnet lately about 'wimin's' groups crying on that 'wimin' need to be protected from men. Of course they do, and so does everyone else! What next, 'Wimin's Lives Matter'?

Does the fact that “All lives matter” in any way diminish the message that “Black lives matter” ? Does it even need to be said? In my opinion it’s only used by people who actually think black lives DON’T matter much or are in denial that people of colour have a rough deal ( compared to their white compatriots) in almost every field one can think of.

Likewise, no one can sensibly deny that, even in the relatively civilised nation of Great Britain, women are more vulnerable to assault than men. And it’s not just because they are physically weaker. There’s an attitude amongst some men that women...any woman....is fair game for abuse or assault. In that respect, there’s evidence that our society has actually gone backwards over the last century.

“Be careful what you wish for” might have been good advice for the women’s lib movement in its early days

[Teddyboy]

"crude sexual comments by men about women being dismissed as “ locker room talk”."
From what we see on telly, both fiction and fact, this isn't something which is necessarily a singularly male pastime! More and more, we see young women behaving in a loutish drunken manner, where all discretion seems to blow out of the window.

"Does the fact that “All lives matter” in any way diminish the message that “Black lives matter” ?"
Sadly, I think I have to say "Yes"! The 'Powers That Be' are so scared of falling foul of any pressure group (Women, Black, LGBTQ, Insulate, etc) that they bend over backwards to accommodate them whilst necessarily reducing their focus on protecting the rest of the general public.

"Does it even need to be said? In my opinion it’s only used by people who actually think black lives DON’T matter"
Honestly, I think that's a generalisation too far! (And really quite insulting to the likes of me (or it could be, if I cared!).

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the Police, though. Some have the most disgraceful attitude towards anyone within their compass! But, then again, they are now mostly of the generations which have grown up under the new parental regime, and still feel the need to continue in their former positions of having power over someone, like they had over their 'riven with guilt' parents.

"women are more vulnerable to assault than men"
And more men are becoming aggressive towards women because of what they recognise (rightly or wrongly) as the abuse they received in being farmed out by parents who valued a comfy lifestyle over happy, balanced, children; or by single mothers who presented them with a string of 'fathers', to whom they were just a nuisance to be fobbed off with a bag of crisps, whilst the mother grabbed any attention she could.

I'm writing far too much here, and I just know that someone will make me regret it! Goodnight.

[HEPZIBAH]

I'm writing far too much here, and I just know that someone will make me regret it! Goodnight.

No you are not writing too much here. It is good to see you taking such an active part again recently, and your views and comments are just as valid and thought provoking as those of other contributors. I sincerly hope that 'someone' does not come along and make you regret it.

[newcastle]

I'm writing far too much here, and I just know that someone will make me regret it!

Well, it won’t be me! You described yourself as “a reactionary old fart”....and your comments indicate a great degree of self-awareness .

I’m always happy to exchange views honestly expressed, whether or not I share them. It’s the “pseuds” in life I have no time for.