"The route of death - I have to take it"

[crewmeal]

A quote from some poor guy trying to get to the UK. I'm surprised no one has commented on here about the untimely deaths of 27 people in the Channel this week.

I really do feel sorry for these people trying their hardest to escape persecution in various countries. Having worked with students who have described their journeys it makes me wonder how any of them suvived. Some even suvuved the horrors of Libya. It does worry me how the UK will cope with all the problems associated with refugees, asylum seekers and all. Most I gather are stuck in hotels around the UK with no hope of housing in the near future with Kent bearing the brunt of finding accomodation.

The French have proved that they don't want these people and don't care where they go as long as it's not France.

What does everyone think about it all?

[newcastle]

A quote from some poor guy trying to get to the UK. I'm surprised no one has commented on here about the untimely deaths of 27 people in the Channel this week.

Fair point crewmeal. My excuse is that I’m tired of getting into arguments with people whose views on how we should treat asylum seekers ( or illegal immigrants if you prefer) are so diametrically opposed to mine.

To me, it’s essentially a humanitarian issue. The majority ( not all, I concede) of these people are fleeing conflict or oppression of one kind or another. We are a rich country with the ability to render them assistance...and should do so to the best of our ability.

If that makes me a bleeding heart leftie...so be it.

Those without a valid claim ( that’s less than 10% apparently) should be returned to their country of origin as expeditiously as possible.

We should provide facilities for people’s asylum claims to be processed on mainland Europe. It won’t obviate all of the problems, but should lessen the willingness of many to risk their lives in crossing the Channel on a flimsy overloaded inflatable.

[Teddyboy]

"returned to their country of origin"

Which would be France? The so-called "civilised" European Union has allowed them to traverse just how many countries, knowing full well that they would end up in one of those flimsy craft trying to get to the gold paved streets of England?
Then, if we send them back to France, they'll find more funds to finance yet another possibly deadly boat trip.

[newcastle]

"returned to their country of origin"

Which would be France? The so-called "civilised" European Union has allowed them to traverse just how many countries, knowing full well that they would end up in one of those flimsy craft trying to get to the gold paved streets of England?
Then, if we send them back to France, they'll find more funds to finance yet another possibly deadly boat trip.

Actually, I was thinking of their country of origin. If we turn down their asylum application, presumably it’s because we consider the country they’ve left perfectly safe...and it’s obliged under international law to accept its own citizens.

I doubt France, or any other intermediate country, would be interested in taking them....unless these countries can get together and agree some kind of arrangement whereby each accepts an annual quota.

Probably a pipe dream....but one the West is going to have to face up to at some point.

At the moment, millions of refugees are living in countries like Syria, Jordan and Turkey....often in appalling misery....and without hope for their entire existence.

[crewmeal]

There is no answer to all these asylum/refugee problems, no matter what Priti Useless stands up in the Commons and spews out all sorts of so called measures and Johnson publicises out what France should do in a letter to Macron. The only winners in all this are the smugglers who take thousands off innocent people who hope they might make it across the Channel or arrive in a refridgerated lorry. No European country has ever wanted these people and have done their best to protect their borders or moved them on elsewhere.

I haven't even mentioned the route from Africa to Europe via Libya. That's even worse

[newcastle]

There is no answer to all these asylum/refugee problems, no matter what Priti Useless stands up in the Commons and spews out all sorts of so called measures and Johnson publicises out what France should do in a letter to Macron. The only winners in all this are the smugglers who take thousands off innocent people who hope they might make it across the Channel or arrive in a refridgerated lorry. No European country has ever wanted these people and have done their best to protect their borders or moved them on elsewhere.

I haven't even mentioned the route from Africa to Europe via Libya. That's even worse

You’re right...there’s no easy answer. Nobody wants these people, however much they’re suffering.

It’s a sad indictment of the human race.

I’m proud to live in a country which adheres to some level of decency and which, I think, will always reject the ideas of those who view refugees as a problem to be disposed of by whatever means. Let’s hope we can, with the Europeans, reach some kind of arrangement to end this appalling loss of life in the Channel.

Stopping Boris from antagonising those we have to deal with would be a good start. That’s what happens when you elect a shallow showman to our most senior diplomatic office.

[Teddyboy]

Mind you, I have noticed that the vast majority of those we see on our TV screens seem to be fit looking young men. Will their home countries ever get better if their young men aren't willing to stay and try to improve their lot?
When I visited Ireland a couple of times, what struck me most was that their pride seems to be in the fact that so many of their population have left the country and are now spread the world over. Perhaps Ireland too might be in a better position if more of their young men had stayed and worked or fought for a better life?
It seems that history is repeating itself, but in other, different, places.
I agree that the current situation with people who are displaced is shocking and appalling, but one small country (no matter how rich) cannot keep absorbing the rest of the world. Officialdom in our near neighbour countries hopes to bankrupt us as a punishment for not towing their line. But surely their indigenous populations cannot stand by and watch these arrogant fools allow folk to keep travelling this "Route of Death" and stay silent?

[crewmeal]

Stopping Boris from antagonising those we have to deal with would be a good start. That’s what happens when you elect a shallow showman to our most senior diplomatic office.

I couldn't agree more. This baffoon has got nothing about him. He's gradually losing the plot. He's never been statesman like in his dress and approach. Trump used him like a puppet that suited him, Biden dislikes him because of his past. It makes you wonder what the rest of the world think about him.

[newcastle]

Mind you, I have noticed that the vast majority of those we see on our TV screens seem to be fit looking young men

How many times have I heard that one?

There’s several reasons.....culturally, women from Arab and eastern countries tend to avoid contact witb males outside the family and won’t be amenable to interview by TV crew; women and children are ill-suited to the rigours of a journey of several thousand miles so their menfolk endure the risks, hoping to bring their families to join them after they’ve arrived in their intended destination .

But people believe what they want to believe....whatever suits their narrative. Priti Patel was asked to justify, with statistics, her assertion that 70% of “illegal” immigrants are actually economic migrants.

She hasn’t so far. It’s unlikely that she would ever be able to....because so few of the arrivals actually have had their circumstances examined in any detail!

Two “ facts” ( rather than perceptions) to consider :

1. Only five (yes...5!) cross-Channel “illegal” immigrants have had their cases settled and been deported this year.

2. Of the recent 27 cross Channel deaths, seven were women (one pregnant) and three were children. How desperate must a woman be to clamber aboard a flimsy inflatable, with her children, on a freezing November night?

Will their home countries ever get better if their young men aren't willing to stay and try to improve their lot?

Have you seen the pictures of Syria? Much of it looks like Dresden after the fire bombing in WWII. I doubt whether many young men can see any realistic possibility of rebuilding their country in their lifetime.

And those from Afghanistan aren’t likely to fancy their chances of turning the Taliban into rational human beings.

Nevertheless....the vast majority of displaced persons from the Middle East are in camps in adjacent countries. Awaiting the day ( if it ever comes) when circumstances allow them to return.

...one small country (no matter how rich) cannot keep absorbing the rest of the world

Ignoring the hyperbole, can I just point out that many of these arrivals will have raised and paid significant sums to smugglers, so are likely to be from relatively affluent backgrounds, often educated and qualified. There’s every reason to believe that they could become tax-paying contributors to our society....if we give them a chance.

[Teddyboy]

I don't intend to get into an argument over this situation, as it would not be helpful for either us, or the poor blighters stuck in some hell-hole camp or glorified dinghy.
Suffice it for me to say that I have lived and worked, on and off, with Egyptian folk (with very similar cultural heritage) for more than 20 years, and I am well aware of the very different cultural attitudes which are involved in these tragic circumstances.
My views (no matter how unfashionable or seemingly harsh) have been coloured by my own long and in-depth interaction with Arabs (or Africans) who could conceivably end up in this type of unenviable position, and not from reports or figures (official or otherwise) which will always be open to interpretation, or falsification.
Please note, newcastle, I'm not calling into question your sincerity, or even your particular facts or figures! I'm just wary of everything in these awful circumstances, and aware that nothing in them at all is simple or straightforward.

[newcastle]

Couldn’t agree more Teddyboy.

You probably understand why....as I said at the outset....I’m reluctant to get into discussions about why this immigration issue exists, or what to do about it.

Then again.....following my own advice has never been one of my strong points.

[Teddyboy]

"I’m reluctant to get into discussions about why this immigration issue exists, or what to do about it.

Then again.....following my own advice has never been one of my strong points."

Again, from experience; I know how difficult it is to keep one's trap shut on emotive issues!

[newcastle]

"I’m reluctant to get into discussions about why this immigration issue exists, or what to do about it.

Then again.....following my own advice has never been one of my strong points."

Again, from experience; I know how difficult it is to keep one's trap shut on emotive issues!