Racism?

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Racism?

Post by hatusu »

“Racism has led to a disproportionate number of BAME people catching coronavirus and dying, says leaked Public Health England report. Racism and social inequality led to a disproportionate number of black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) people catching coronavirus and dying from it, according to a study by Public Health England (PHE).”

What is “Racism” exactly? Can we not accept that there ARE differences in different ethnic groups without being called racist.
I used to be a church bell ringer, and often rang for weddings on Saturday afternoons at various churches in the town and surrounding areas . One church we often rang at was predominantly West Indian. After a year I refused to ring at this church any longer – NOT because the congregation was virtually all black, but because they never, ever turned up on time (not even once!) and Im not talking minutes, Im talking up to an hour or more. This never happened at other churches , but I honestly think that in general West Indians have a more relaxed attitude to time keeping. Am I racist ?
(My son’s best friend from school days is West Indian by the way)
For a few years, I worked for a housing organisation that gave out grants for heating
(Health Through Warmth) . Most of my time was spent visiting Asian households.
I have to say that their attitude to health and safety was pretty appalling and I saw some terrible things in their homes. Pretty much on a par with Egyptians. Here in the village Egyptians can see nothing wrong with blind people driving tuc-tucs, or not putting your car headlights on at night to save using up the battery, or sticking bare wires into sockets for lack of a plug ,or letting your children swim in one of the worst polluted rivers in the world ………..etc etc. Am I a racist to say this ?
Am I racist to say that lack of safety awareness seems to be racially inherent for some ethnic groups?
I think Public Health England should encourage ALL communities to take responsibility themselves for safety, and not blame lack of it on Racism.



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Re: Racism?

Post by carrie »

Perhaps Public Health England would have been better reporting that under privileged. poor communities suffer the most, be they black or white.

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Re: Racism?

Post by newcastle »

Racism to me means a belief that those of a different ethnicity are inherently inferior and deserve less as members of society.

Like all species, we are genetically predisposed towards associating with those that resemble us whilst being wary of those who are “different”. Such predispositions have diminished over time but all still present even in the most enlightened societies.

That BAEM segments of British society currently suffer deprivation in many area is undeniable. The extent to which this is caused by deliberate action on the part of society or the government is debatable. There is clearly a long way to go before we can, in all honesty, say that the life opportunities and experiences of BAEM are unaffected by their ethnicity.

Whilst I believe that the numbers of genuine racists is small, all of us perhaps need to adjust our behaviour so as to counter the actions of this minority. We should avoid the tendency to transpose any negative experience with BAEM and generalise it so it becomes, in our mind, an inherent feature of that element of society.

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Re: Racism?

Post by Who2 »

Regarding the grants we did one for an asian family also throwing in, kitchen extensions, central heating ect and got past from one family to another they kept us in work for years, and their food was to die for,
great people...great food..and if someone wants to give them grants, well daft they ain't.
Turned our corner shops around as well..bless em all... 8)
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

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Re: Racism?

Post by newcastle »

Boris institutes yet another commission to report on racial inequality.

What a total and farcical waste of time!

We’ve had umpteen inquiries, some general, some into specific areas (e.g policing). We know the problems and where they exist. It might be interesting to know WHY the BAME proportion is disadvantaged .....but I doubt any new light will be shed on this. It might be a useful topic for any number of philosophical/psychological theses.

The fact is, it exists.

And it’s high time the government took practical steps to reduce it rather than engage in another round of navel-gazing.

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Re: Racism?

Post by hatusu »

Im genuinely puzzled by the demands for "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" to be banned from being sung at rugby events. It was actually written by a freed black slave, Wallace Willis. So how can it be racist? Can somebody explain to me very simply and concisely on what grounds people want it banned?

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Re: Racism?

Post by newcastle »

hatusu wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:16 am
Im genuinely puzzled by the demands for "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" to be banned from being sung at rugby events. It was actually written by a freed black slave, Wallace Willis. So how can it be racist? Can somebody explain to me very simply and concisely on what grounds people want it banned?
A review of the “appropriateness” of the song is being carried out by the RFU...in the light of the current furore over BLM and anything connected with slavery...however remote. It’s got to the ludicrous point where anything with racial connections- particularly if now admired (statues) or celebrated (songs) by a largely white audience- is categorised as “racist”.

I’m not sure many people are concerned with this song, notwithstanding that it’s a spiritual written by an ex slave eons ago. I’m sure the RFU will come to the conclusion that there’s nothing offensive about singing a song which, if anything, refers to the struggle against slavery.

I remember singing along to the song in after-match reveries in my rugby-playing days. No one had a clue about what the song referred to. We only knew two verses...repeated endlessly.

Of far more importance were the gestures accompanying each line....particularly the obscene ones :lol:

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Re: Racism?

Post by HEPZIBAH »

The recent cries to stop the singing of Swing Low Sweet Chariot is just another red herring in the war against racism.

As we know, it is a negro spiritual, and when you read the lyrics there are two possible interprettations, both being related to slavery, opression, and freedom. Quite how or why it was taken up as a Rugby anthem I have no idea.

What I am wondering is, as it it is being revieved by the Rugby Football Union, are they also going to review other popularly sung songs. There are others that could give offence to other sectors of society.

This does not just apply to Rugby and 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' , there are lots of other potential examples in music, without looking to the wider spheres of art and archtecture.
Should Verdi's 'Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves' be no longer sung?
Should John Newton's 'Amazing Grace' be ripped from our hymnals? Afterall, he had been a captain of a slave ship, before becoming a Chritian and an abolutionist.

How far can or should we go in sanitising history? Wouldn't we be better off learning from these issues and moving forward, striving to improve, insted of being so focussed on the past, only seeing the negative and not the positive.

Racism is wrong. But it is also wrong to deny that we all have racial predjucises and preference to one extent or another, no matter our colour, nationality, faith, or culture. It is how we deal with and express it that seperates us frlm being a biggoted racist.
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Re: Racism?

Post by newcastle »


Racism is wrong. But it is also wrong to deny that we all have racial predjucises and preference to one extent or another, no matter our colour, nationality, faith, or culture. It is how we deal with and express it that seperates us frlm being a biggoted racist.
How true.

You never know with the old farts at the RFU but I hope sense prevails and we hear no more about this ridiculous suggestion.

BTW the singing of Swing low....Is said to be associated with an English player (Martin Offiah) of Nigerian heritage - whose nickname was “ Chariots”. He played in the late 1980’s. However I know the song was around before then.....from my own rugby career.

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Re: Racism?

Post by hatusu »

Am I still allowed to sing "On Ilkley Moor B'Aht 'At" or will Lancastrians be deeply offended?

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Re: Racism?

Post by newcastle »

hatusu wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:51 am
Am I still allowed to sing "On Ilkley Moor B'Aht 'At" or will Lancastrians be deeply offended?
Only if you’re “without thy trousers on”.... :oops:

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Re: Racism?

Post by Who2 »

"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

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Re: Racism?

Post by BENNU »

This song takes me back to a time when only racists would consider it a crime to be colour blind.

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Re: Racism?

Post by hatusu »

And there's more -
"Recipes in two of the world's leading food publications are being reviewed after they were accused of stealing dishes from ethnic minorities without crediting them. North American magazine 'Bon Appétit' (top right) and British publications 'BBC Good Food' (bottom right) and 'Olive' have all been criticised for taking credit for recipes originally made by other ethnicities."

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Re: Racism?

Post by hatusu »

One of my favourite books, that I go back to at regular intervals, is Bill Brysons “The Mother Tongue and How It got That Way”. He explains how new words regularly come into the English language, and others fall out of use over time. I think the word “commonsense” will very soon fall into the latter category.

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Re: Racism?

Post by carrie »

Oh for f..ks sake. Not often I swear but this is getting ridiculous. Land of Hope and Glory's next for the chop.

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Re: Racism?

Post by newcastle »

carrie wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:14 pm
Oh for f..ks sake. Not often I swear but this is getting ridiculous. Land of Hope and Glory's next for the chop.
They can start with the National Anthem whose last verse is aimed at the Scots :

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!

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Re: Racism?

Post by BENNU »

I found a translation of the Danish royal anthem which shares the status of national anthem, just learned that it is one of the oldest in the world:

King Christian stood by the tall mast in smoke and mist; 

his sword was hammering so hard, 

that the Swedes' helmets and brains cracked. 

Then sank every enemy stern and mast in smoke and mist. 

"Flee," they screamed, "flee as flee can! 

Who can stand up to Denmark's Christian in battle?"

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Re: Racism?

Post by carrie »

Black lives matter, yes they do but no more so that white ones, brown ones, yellow or pink.
All lives matter.

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Re: Racism?

Post by A-Four »

Racism is a very strange animal. Throughout my life I have travelled to many parts of the world, often I have found that in most cases racism is confused by the lack of understanding the culture of others. If some one thinks a Caribbean wedding can be rather different in attitude compared to the usual British version, then may I suggest they give a Caribbean funeral a very wide berth, and no, it's is not similar to the New Orleans type.

I have just come back to London from my home in Hove, my next door neighbours there have placed a large poster in their front window, 'Black Lives Matter', their two children are called Jemima and Skye, so you get the picture, mummy and daddy would never be seen dead in Brixton, and although they have loads of money, they know F*** all about international culture.

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